Doug Mason

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Posts by Doug Mason

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  15

  Old belief quietly discontinued

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of jws oldest beliefs, going back to the bible students, was quietly turned to old light in the latest wt.

  in questions from readers, it explains that when satan told eve 'you certainly will not die', he wasn't starting the doctrine of the immortal soul, but that rather came later, after the flood..

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  Doug Mason

  There was no Satan in the Eden story. That idea was created even later than the time when the NT documents were written.
• 

  From Daniel 4 to 1914 CE?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i never thought that ever again i would have to write about nebuchadnezzar's dream at chapter 4 of daniel.

  but you never know what life throws up.. no doubt i can find several excuses for missing some relevant or vital piece of information and probably i need to make improvements -- so feel very free to let me know.. although i based my presentation on an article at the jw.org site, i was unable to locate its source in a magazine or in a book.

  i will appreciate any help.. https://jwstudies.com/daniel_4_and_1914.pdf .

• 

  Doug Mason

  I never thought that ever again I would have to write about Nebuchadnezzar's dream at chapter 4 of Daniel. But you never know what life throws up.

  No doubt I can find several excuses for missing some relevant or vital piece of information and probably I need to make improvements -- so feel very free to let me know.

  Although I based my presentation on an article at the JW.ORG site, I was unable to locate its source in a magazine or in a book. I will appreciate any help.

  https://jwstudies.com/Daniel_4_and_1914.pdf

  Doug
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  26

  Secondary fulfilment to prophecy?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in its use of the prophecy contained in nebuchadnezzar's dream (daniel 4), the wts applies a "greater fulfilment" beyond its initial application.. while they complain about the wts's action, at the same time these people make their own secondary applications to prophecies, such as with micah 5:2. these people also find "greater" meaning to historical statements, such as at isaiah 9:6 and at isaiah 53.. such passages had their local meaning yet people are prepared to find their "greater application" which suits their ends, just as the wts does.

  it is not an excuse to say that the nt writers indulged themselves in the practice.. i am not saying that i agree with the practice; i am simply seeking consistency and integrity.. doug.

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  Doug Mason

  Mac48,

  My position on the Book of Daniel is that it was compiled in 164 BCE during a period of heightened speculative atmosphere initiated during the previous 3rd century, as witnessed through writings such as 1 Enoch, Jubilees, etc. and through actions such as by the communities of the Dead Sea.

  That period created a spirit world with its hierarchy, extending to a spirit leader that personified evil. The name they gave to this leader included Beliar, Belial, Azazel, Mastema, and Satan. This latter individual must not be confused with the satan mentioned in the Hebrew Scriptures (Job, etc.).

  Th situation confronting the writers of Daniel (in its present form) was the persecution by Antiochus Epiphanes, and they formulated the stories in such a way that they were giving messages of comfort to their people while not alerting their persecutors to the real messages they were giving.

  So they purported to be writing stories about events taking place centuries earlier, which details their current tormentors would not be aware of. Thus chapters 2 , 3 and 4 told their followers that their tormentors, who thought their kingdom would last forever, would be brought down. They reapplied Nabonidus' apparent mental illness to Nebuchadnezzar.

  They created time frames ("2300 evenings and mornings", "62 weeks, 7 weeks, and 1 week") that would terminate in their own time. They created saviours who would be fulfilled in their time. They spoke of their Kings of the south and of the north -- the Seleucids and the Ptolemies,

  Does this seem like a political document, a political manifesto? Does this go to some way of explaining the reasons its parts were written in two languages?

  These people were not aware of what another group would write centuries later. Completely unaware. And it would be difficult to demonstrate that the writers of Revelations sourced their thought from Daniel. I suspect that 1 Enoch and/or Jubilees were their source(s).

  Doug
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  26

  Secondary fulfilment to prophecy?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in its use of the prophecy contained in nebuchadnezzar's dream (daniel 4), the wts applies a "greater fulfilment" beyond its initial application.. while they complain about the wts's action, at the same time these people make their own secondary applications to prophecies, such as with micah 5:2. these people also find "greater" meaning to historical statements, such as at isaiah 9:6 and at isaiah 53.. such passages had their local meaning yet people are prepared to find their "greater application" which suits their ends, just as the wts does.

  it is not an excuse to say that the nt writers indulged themselves in the practice.. i am not saying that i agree with the practice; i am simply seeking consistency and integrity.. doug.

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  Doug Mason

  alanv,

  Yes, and this reapplication is prominent throughout the Gospels, notably Matthew, as well as by Paul.

  Doug
• 
  26

  Secondary fulfilment to prophecy?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in its use of the prophecy contained in nebuchadnezzar's dream (daniel 4), the wts applies a "greater fulfilment" beyond its initial application.. while they complain about the wts's action, at the same time these people make their own secondary applications to prophecies, such as with micah 5:2. these people also find "greater" meaning to historical statements, such as at isaiah 9:6 and at isaiah 53.. such passages had their local meaning yet people are prepared to find their "greater application" which suits their ends, just as the wts does.

  it is not an excuse to say that the nt writers indulged themselves in the practice.. i am not saying that i agree with the practice; i am simply seeking consistency and integrity.. doug.

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  Doug Mason

  I must say that I am deeply impressed by everybody's contribution. Thank you.

  Mac48, as for your thoughts, although I have my reservations at this stage, I would like to offer you some suggestions that might remove some mental roadblocks.

  The book of Daniel as we have it comes from the second century BCE. The preceding centuries witnessed the rise of apocalypticism, so inform yourself about the contemporary times (1 Enoch, Jubilees, Dead Sea community, in particular). That period was also responsible for the creation of an evil spirit world, including their leader, known as Belial / Beliar / Mastema / Azazel / Satan, etc. The LXX took over the Greek diabolos / Devil. Later, the NT writers created demons. This period also invented a War inside Heaven(!).

  Regarding the numbers, do not be distracted by modern mathematics, particularly with its focus on positional notation. Rather, work through their ideas of Gematria, Kabbalah, and so on ("the number of his name", etc.), in other words, the spiritual meanings given to numbers.

  There is a consensus that when the 2nd century CE writers compiled the Book of Daniel for their own immediate needs, that they did not get the history precisely correct in the way that we would understand history. The Hebrews and the Jews created stories in order to give meaning to their own situation. It is thus thought that they reapplied Nabonidus' ten year absence from Babylon in Tema, as it suited their objective regarding Antiochus. Taken in sequence, chapters 2, 3 and 4 of Daniel show that the mighty, who think their kingdom will last forever, will all be humbled.

  As for the Johannine community that wrote, Revelation, that is another separate exercise which has to look at their own situation and approaches.

  My thoughts on the dream, which I hope to start another Thread with: https://jwstudies.com/Daniel_4_and_1914.pdf

  Doug
• 
  26

  Secondary fulfilment to prophecy?

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  in its use of the prophecy contained in nebuchadnezzar's dream (daniel 4), the wts applies a "greater fulfilment" beyond its initial application.. while they complain about the wts's action, at the same time these people make their own secondary applications to prophecies, such as with micah 5:2. these people also find "greater" meaning to historical statements, such as at isaiah 9:6 and at isaiah 53.. such passages had their local meaning yet people are prepared to find their "greater application" which suits their ends, just as the wts does.

  it is not an excuse to say that the nt writers indulged themselves in the practice.. i am not saying that i agree with the practice; i am simply seeking consistency and integrity.. doug.

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  Doug Mason

  In its use of the prophecy contained in Nebuchadnezzar's dream (Daniel 4), the WTS applies a "greater fulfilment" beyond its initial application.

  While they complain about the WTS's action, at the same time these people make their own secondary applications to prophecies, such as with Micah 5:2. These people also find "greater" meaning to historical statements, such as at Isaiah 9:6 and at Isaiah 53.

  Such passages had their local meaning yet people are prepared to find their "greater application" which suits their ends, just as the WTS does. It is not an excuse to say that the NT writers indulged themselves in the practice.

  I am not saying that I agree with the practice; I am simply seeking consistency and integrity.

  Doug
• 

  Alexandre Meinesz updated

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have updated my discussion on alexandre meiniesz in my critique, "the origin of life, using scientists".. the name of the document remains: https://jwstudies.com/the_origin_of_life__scientists.pdf .

  for convenience, i have also provided the update as a separate file:.

  https://jwstudies.com/alexandre_meinesz_restrucured.pdf .

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  Doug Mason

  I have updated my discussion on Alexandre Meiniesz in my critique, "The Origin of Life, Using Scientists".

  The name of the document remains: https://jwstudies.com/The_Origin_of_Life__Scientists.pdf

  For convenience, I have also provided the update as a separate file:

  https://jwstudies.com/Alexandre_Meinesz_restrucured.pdf
  

  Doug
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  44

  A book on the pronunciation of God's Name

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i am neither recommending nor rejecting the following book.

  i am simply saying that i stumbled across it.

  i have neither read it nor studied it.. search with: the name of god y.eh.ow.ah which is pronounced as it is written i eh ou ah its story gérard gertoux .

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  Doug Mason

  I am neither recommending nor rejecting the following book. I am simply saying that I stumbled across it. I have neither read it nor studied it.

  Search with: The Name of God Y.eH.oW.aH Which is Pronounced as it is Written I Eh oU Ah Its Story GÉRARD GERTOUX

  A search will find a free simplified version at Academia.edu and a Youtube video:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjpGXSyIqTc

  https://www.dreilindenfilm.de/shop/der-name-gottes_en.html
  

  My current opinion is that prior to 70 CE the Sadducees operated the Jerusalem temple and those priests became to only people who could utter God's Holy Name on certain occasions. When the temple was destroyed, the Sadducees and their rituals ceased, to be overtaken in time by Rabbinic Judaism.
  

  Doug
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  " The Origin of Life" -- Using Scientists

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am providing version 1 of my critique of the brochure: "the origin of life" -- using scientists".. i appreciate the responses that i received to the pre-draft versions.. the critique looks at how the brochure uses its scientific sources.

  i am concerned with whether it is honest or dishonest.. there are a few places where i have difficulty locating a source and your help will be appreciated.. as always, let me know the corrections (technical or grammatical), additions, suggestions and so on.. https://jwstudies.com/the_origin_of_life__scientists.pdf .

  i am not concerned whether the brochure's information regarding evolution is technically correct or adequate.

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  Doug Mason

  I am providing Version 1 of my Critique of the brochure: "the Origin of Life" -- Using Scientists".

  I appreciate the responses that I received to the pre-draft Versions.

  The Critique looks at how the brochure uses its scientific sources. I am concerned with whether it is honest or dishonest.

  There are a few places where I have difficulty locating a source and your help will be appreciated.

  As always, let me know the corrections (technical or grammatical), additions, suggestions and so on.

  https://jwstudies.com/The_Origin_of_Life__Scientists.pdf

  I am not concerned whether the brochure's information regarding evolution is technically correct or adequate. That will be discussed in the forthcoming Critique (no time frame for that at present). If you can help me with the planned Critique, please contact me directly by email. People can tell you that I never break confidences unless I am specifically instructed to do so.

  Doug
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  4

  "The Origin of Life" -- Using Scientists

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am providing version 1 of my critique of the brochure: "the origin of life" -- using scientists".. i appreciate the responses that i received to the pre-draft versions.. the critique looks at how the brochure uses its scientific sources.

  i am concerned with whether it is honest or dishonest.. there are a few places where i have difficulty locating a source and your help will be appreciated.. as always, let me know the corrections (technical or grammatical), additions, suggestions and so on.. https://jwstudies.com/the_origin_of_life__scientists.pdf .

  i am not concerned whether the brochure's information regarding evolution is technically correct or adequate.

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  Doug Mason

  Keinlezard!

  Brilliant! Thank you.

  I will investigate and update my Critique accordingly. I would appreciate you contacting me directly by email so that I can check with you that I have translated the French correctly and that I have presented him correctly.

  I located a few minor adjustments I needed to make to my initial Version 1. No doubt few will notice these, but I have called it Version 2.

  Doug